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Darn, I could've saved $200 if I had waited on holiday airline tickets.. Good find OP.

Yeah, but ... but ... it's SOUTHWEST!

You couldn't pay me enough.

ai03mj23 said:pushback said:Yeah, but ... but ... it's SOUTHWEST!

You couldn't pay me enough.

Exactly. Why would you want to fly on the most on-time airline with the lowest consumer complaint rate? And why would you want to fly direct almost anywhere instead of having a four layover in Hotlanta or Dallas? And why would want to be able to check 2 bags for free instead of paying $50-$75? Makes perfect sense to me.

Many reasons:
1. Don't like being forced to check in on their web site EXACTLY 24 hours before the flight to get a decent seat
2. Don't like being forced to line-up like a bunch of kindergarteners going to the bathroom to board a flight, complicated by people who aren't smart enough to understand the system
3. Forced to pay an "upgrade" when trying to take an earlier flight
4. Sold out planes, fully of unexperienced travelers, screaming kids and overweight people who barely fit in their seat - more so than ANY other major airline
5. I pack light when traveling, usually don't check a bag, and in the few occasions when I do (scuba gear), don't pay to check bags as an elite customer. Full service carriers are going out of their way to support elite customers with benefits not available on Southworst (first class seats, airport clubs

You can still get decent fares on full service carriers, who offer nonstop flights - sometimes better than Southworst.

MANY more options to redeem reward travel - in particular, beyond the continental 48 states.

There are instances when I have no choice but to fly Southworst, which is why I understand it so well and only do so as a last resort. On my last flight, the flight attendant was complaining about the class of people that fly Southwest, and a customer who left a dirty diaper in a seat pocket - didn't surprise me...

Southwest has NEVER lost one of my bags. Southwest has NEVER arrived late. I have never missed a connection. I often nap and miss the complimentary drinks, they always come around later when I'm awake and ask if I'd like a coke. They offer a wealth of departures from my city, often non stop, and get me there ontime, cheaply, with no drama.

I prefer to check in online 24hrs ahead of time. I do it by cell phone, once while passing the time stuck in LA traffic jam. Sometimes I have forgotten the 24 hour checkin. Even if you wait to check in 10 hours or later online you usually get a "B" seat - thus still sitting in an empty row.

I do wish Southwest would cut out the stupid jokes and comedy by the crew. I'm a passenger not a comedy club patron. The most ridiculous stunt is when they slide the peanuts down the center aisle on takeoff, and you are supposed to catch them as they slide by.

shank said:
That said, I find it amazing how Southworst lovers get so loose with misinformation, which I attribute primarily to their lack of RECENT experience on major, full service carriers. How about some objective facts:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hdecIxr36gJAOMxcyPEEeiQwo2YgD94A7P080 Southwest Airlines on-time arrival rate in September, at 89 percent, was FIFTH best overall. While no statistics are offered for lost baggage by carrier, your experience is not statistically significant, or suggest that Southworst is any different than its competitors in this regard.

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.htmlThere are either 122 or 137 seats on a Southwest 737. at 6 seats per row, there are between 20 and 30 rows. When you pull a B group, at least 60 people boarded before you, making it unlikely that there will be an empty row, and the second half of the B group all but guarantees a middle seat.

Most every other airlines allows you to reserve a seat when booking a flight, and there is no need for advance check-in at a prescribed time.

Nap? With the crying babies and loud kids? Thank goodness for noise reduction headphones, which filter out most of the noise.

I have to laugh with Southworst's misuse of the term "upgrade" - paying extra to take an earlier flight on the same day or board first. The term was originally intended to define a higher level of onboard service - business or first class.When choosing a favorite airline, most will weigh the advantages and disadvantages versus other airlines:

Cost (and additional fees, if any);
Proximity of airport to home and or destination;
Elite status (or lack thereof);
Ease of earning FF miles/flights;
Direct flight availability;
Ability to upgrade to first class;
Ability to reserve a seat;
Ability to change or cancel your flight, and fees for doing so;
Etc.

Depending on how much weight you place on those factors (and other factors that may apply) will likely determine what airline you are loyal to, or at least determine what airline you prefer.

There have been other threads on this board bashing Southwest (the thread in Finance about the SW Visa is a good example). Most of those shots came from flyers who were able to attain elite status by taking advantage of miles from business flights and using the perks for personal use. If I was able to do that, perhaps I would prefer a larger carrier too. Those same people seemed to think they were part of a better class of people than those who fly SW. Hey, I'd rather not sit next to you either buddy.

With that said, SW works for me most times. If you MUST have reserved seats, SW is not going to work for you, especially if you are not the type to log on and get your boarding passes at the 24 hour mark. Yet I fail to see how the attendant A, B, C group line up significantly differs from the forced lineup/boarding proceedure of other airlines (which board by groups of rows). Either way, its a cattle call; if not for the seat then for the overhead storage.

For me, SW usually costs the least to my destinations (or is free b/c of RR flights) so I'll deal with not knowing where I am going to sit until I board. If I was not the type to be online grabbing that boarding pass at the 24 hour mark, perhaps I'd feel differently. I agree with you as to the SW Business tickets. Besides boarding early and two RR credits, there really is no justification for the higher cost of those tickets. But an informed pax will take the ticket "class" for what it is. Most will not pay for First Class because a larger seat and a few free drinks does not justify a cost 3-6x that of a coach ticket. It is the same cost/benefit tradeoff.

The references to on-time data is always questionable as busier hubs produce more delays. My local airport is practically delay-free; perhaps this is not the case for SW flights from your home airport. The last 4 of 5 R/T flights have been on SW and I have no complaints. If another carrier is your perference, fine. I fail to see how that is justification to imply another carrier is subpar on all fronts.

You also fail to mention that SW does not impose cancellation or changes fees for any ticket class. On other carriers, those fees can be as high as $100 per ticket. And on SW, you can change or cancel for any reason, even if it is just to take advantage of a fare decrease. That is a huge benefit IMO. One that takes a lot of the guess work out of when to book.

And are you saying that there are no crying kids on other airlines' planes? Geez. Maybe that noise was the adults crying on that Cathay Pacific (one of the highest rated international airlines) flight I took to Vancouver recently? Kids on flights is a whole other discussion; but unless you are on a charter flight or in some elite area of business class, you are just as likely to have kids on your plane as you are on a Southwest flight.

Let me know if you think I am being "loose" with any of the info I posted about SW or otherwise.

jlawrence01 said:isles1 said:When choosing a favorite airline, most will weigh the advantages and disadvantages versus other airlines:
Depending on how much weight you place on those factors (and other factors that may apply) will likely determine what airline you are loyal to, or at least determine what airline you prefer.


Yesterday, I arrived at Midway on Southwest at 3:40pm and by 4:10pm, I had my luggage, caught the Midway Park and Ride, picked up my car, and was heading north on Cicero Ave. Try checking a bag to O'Hare and see if you can get out in under an hour.

And I made it home in time to rebook my next flight for $30/RT less.I prefer flying out of ISP on SW rather than JFK or LGA for similar reasons. I am often thru TSA in less than 5 minutes before heading to the gate and in a car on the way home less than 10 minutes after getting off the plane. For me, these convieniences would even justify paying more to fly SW than another airline out of a larger airport. Thankfully, SW is usually the cheapest.

Again, not everyone's situation or preferences are identical.

isles1 said:shank said:
That said, I find it amazing how Southworst lovers get so loose with misinformation, which I attribute primarily to their lack of RECENT experience on major, full service carriers. How about some objective facts:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hdecIxr36gJAOMxcyPEEeiQwo2YgD94A7P080 Southwest Airlines on-time arrival rate in September, at 89 percent, was FIFTH best overall. While no statistics are offered for lost baggage by carrier, your experience is not statistically significant, or suggest that Southworst is any different than its competitors in this regard.

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.htmlThere are either 122 or 137 seats on a Southwest 737. at 6 seats per row, there are between 20 and 30 rows. When you pull a B group, at least 60 people boarded before you, making it unlikely that there will be an empty row, and the second half of the B group all but guarantees a middle seat.

Most every other airlines allows you to reserve a seat when booking a flight, and there is no need for advance check-in at a prescribed time.

Nap? With the crying babies and loud kids? Thank goodness for noise reduction headphones, which filter out most of the noise.

I have to laugh with Southworst's misuse of the term "upgrade" - paying extra to take an earlier flight on the same day or board first. The term was originally intended to define a higher level of onboard service - business or first class.
You also fail to mention that SW does not impose cancellation or changes fees for any ticket class. On other carriers, those fees can be as high as $100 per ticket. And on SW, you can change or cancel for any reason, even if it is just to take advantage of a fare decrease. That is a huge benefit IMO. One that takes a lot of the guess work out of when to book.

Well said, isles1.

In regard to SW's policy regarding changes: While there are indeed some benefits, it can also be deceiving. In my case, I almost always keep my original itinerary, but tend to book late flights, and often end up at the airport earlier than expected. When flying American - my carrier of choice, there is never a charge to standby for an earlier flight, when available. If you purchased a discount ticket on SW, any such change in plans will be treated as a cancellation of your original flight, and rebooking at the full, last minute fare. I have been quoted "upgrade" standby prices between $20 and $125 in such cases - even when the plane is empty - and am amazed when SW gate agents rush to put a bunch of <$25 charges on standby passenger credit cards, when the flight is already late.

isles1 said:shank said: isles1 said:You also fail to mention that SW does not impose cancellation or changes fees for any ticket class. On other carriers, those fees can be as high as $100 per ticket. And on SW, you can change or cancel for any reason, even if it is just to take advantage of a fare decrease. That is a huge benefit IMO. One that takes a lot of the guess work out of when to book.

Well said, isles1.

In regard to SW's policy regarding changes: While there are indeed some benefits, it can also be deceiving. In my case, I almost always keep my original itinerary, but tend to book late flights, and often end up at the airport earlier than expected. When flying American - my carrier of choice, there is never a charge to standby for an earlier flight, when available. If you purchased a discount ticket on SW, any such change in plans will be treated as a cancellation of your original flight, and rebooking at the full, last minute fare. I have been quoted "upgrade" standby prices between $20 and $125 in such cases - even when the plane is empty - and am amazed when SW gate agents rush to put a bunch of <$25 charges on standby passenger credit cards, when the flight is already late.If that is the case with SW (I have no personal experience with flying standby with them) then I can see how AA works better for you. I usually book the first flight out and the last flight home. Perfect example of different strokes for different folks.

But you are equating flying standby with general advance cancellations and itinerary changes. Although similar in some circumstances, most people will not end up flying standby; however, many will opt to take a lower published fare or cancel a trip if something comes up.

Even if the standby issue is a deal killer for you, I fail to see how that makes Southwest = Southworst in all circumstances. Items 1,2 and 4 in my Nov 15 post

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Book by December 4th for travel December 12, 2008 - February 28, 2009.
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